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Post by crazydima on Nov 25, 2007 22:43:20 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
Well I figure it is time for me to start posting details I have found to be interesting which are contained in the memoirs of RKKA veterans.
There is a lot available for folks to read if they want to take the time to get it done. This will not be information from novels or other such folly. This will be from the men and women who wee part of the RKKA and were there.
Too often folks ramble on about what the "typical" or "common" Frontovik should look like, eat, wear etc. What exactly do those words mean?
It is becoming more apparent to me and others that many of these same folks have not taken the time to read the words and study the photos of the veterans who were there.
In the coming days, weeks, months, years I will begin to post notations from these memoirs which will shed some light on many of the misconceptions the "know-it-alls" attempt to perpetuate.
I encourage others to do the same.
Knowledge is power.
Ignorance breeds fear. However, ignorance is easily corrected.
Sincerely,
Dima (The one who listens to the past......unlike others who re-write history)
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Post by crazydima on Dec 31, 2008 21:13:46 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
Too often the know it alls in the hobby go n-u-t-s when someone talks about the use of captured arms. It is so silly to watch as the purists go bananas when documentation is presented to back it up.
You see the reason such hostility exists regarding the use of captured, foreign or non issued arms is due to bad experiences in the hobby with bad re-enactors. Instead of dealing with bad apples on a case by case basis the "know it alls" are lazy and decided to throw the baby out with the bath water and discourage the use across the board.
Sorry folks.......doing that is just as historically inaccurate.
Let us look at what Nikolai Litvin tells us in his book "800 Days on the Eastern Front."
While in the 1st Airborne Corps as a mortar man he states "We carried a PPSH subgun, a Finnish knife, Two grenades(1 A.t. and 1 Anti-personnel 500 rounds of ammo, a sappers shovel, a water bottle and a meal kit. What is wrong with a Russian scout knife? LOL!
Later in April of 1943 he states "At this point lend lease vehicles from America beginning to arrive in large numbers. I wound up as a driver.......3 batteries of long barreled 45mm A.T. guns towed by American Willys jeeps."
"From the captured carts(German) we took everything that could prove useful in camp life and battle."OMG! Using enemy items!
"our battery consisted of 4- 45mm A.T. guns, 40 men, 35 PPSH sub guns and one German machine pistol not counting pistols and grenades. A German weapon? The pistols must be the officers....right? LOL!
"I laid my machine pistol on the hood of the truck." What? Out in the open. LOL!
".....to join the others at the firing position with my captured German light MG. I had carried this weapon and two cans of ammo for it eve since we left ponyri." What? Nobody sent him to the gulag for carrying this weapon? LOL!
"I had given my my captured German light MG and two banks of cartridges to a small convoy's escort."
"I took out my pistol and laid it beside my jacket on the seat next to me. I placed my captured German Machine pistol on top of my jacket." What? an enlisted man with a pistol! So much for regulations. LOL!
"around the gearshift I place to F-1 grenades. I took out my TT pistol from my holster and laid it with my jacket."
while serving in a penal company he wrote "..for operation Bagration formed special penal assault battalion. 273 men, 2 - 100 man sub gun companies plus another small support platoon of sub gunners." So much for ill equipped penal units, LOL!
After being released from the penal unit he wrote "I pushed the windshield down on the hood and placed my captured sub gun on the dashboard facing forward." So much for regs! LOL!
Kostia and I took our pistols when we went to examine the manor.......each of us fired 3 times.....the general scolded us for lousy shooting with our personal sidearms.......he pulled a Mauser out of his holster....." Wow, so even an officer sees them with pistols but no hassle. LOL!
In March of 1946 Litvin was arrested for illegal possession of a pistol. This was one which was a war prize he had picked up in April of 1945 in Brandenburg. He had intended to give it to a friend who was an officer. However, before he could get it done his younger brother took the pistol and used it in a crime.
According to Litvin at the end of the War officers were permitted to keep their sidearms.
My point is that obviously Litvins officers did not care that he had a pistol or other foreign items during the war.
So as you can see here is just one example of what soldiers do when fighting a war. So much for regulations and T.O.E. LOL!
More to come!
Sincerely,
Dima (One who likes the truth)
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Post by crazydima on Dec 31, 2008 22:31:46 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
From "Memories of War;" Vol. 2
According to Evgenii Moniushko in his memoirs he stated..."I only have a TT......although I am not a Lt. yet" Not an officer? No say it isn't so! LOL!
"I gave my holster with my sidearm to the gunner. The sidearm was my own it was unaccounted for and didn't have to be passed on officially." What? This cannot be. LOL!
"The sub guns had been taken away from many artillerymen including me so that the infantry could be better armed ...... after all according to T.O.&E. I wasn't suppose to have a sub gun. ......Of course right after we entered Tsobten, I found a submachine gun that apparently had been abandoned by a wounded or dead soldier.....it was broken, it would only fired single shots......after I joined the infantry I armed myself with a carbine instead of a broken PPSH" Not equipped according to T.O.&E.! I can't believe it.
"....5 or 6 May Tsoboten, Silesia......German climbing over fence......I had a sub machine gun but I couldn't be certain it would hit at such a distance.....I grabbed a carbine from a soldier...." Somebody better remind him of T.O.&E. LOL!
Sincerely,
Dima (the truth is much more fun than fiction)
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Post by crazydima on Dec 31, 2008 23:36:10 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
Tis is from Evgeni Bessonov who was a tank rider in the 4th Tank Army.
"I still carried the PPSH in the Orel......but I got tired of carrying it around. I the battles that followed my weapon was a German Walther pistol that I found.....Sometimes I carried a second pistol of smaller caliber. I loved my Walther.....I did not like the parabellum." What? A German weapon!
"A soldier is a soldier....." Maybe some of the experts could learn from this phrase.
I would not have a gun in my hand during battle.......small entrenching tool......tap the buts of "too long on the ground" soldiers." Now that is different.
"I also had a Finnish knife but I lost it later." No, not a Finnish knife.
"My men gathered German weapons and ammo...."
"Soldiers dug foxholes and put their weapon, which had no ammo, on breastworks; next to them they put German weapons with ammo and 2 or 3 German grenades."
"I had a German tool that I carried in my hand........till the end of the war."
"Defending Podolsk we had to pick up German small arms: sub guns, rifles and Mgs since we had no ammo for ours. Some soldiers carried German and their own weapons. Germans dropped ammo and it fell into our hands." No way! LOL!
"I had a rifle a German carbine......"
" I do not remember how I ended up with a sub gun."
"I had a separate rod above which I hung a German sub gun."
" I tried to cut him down with my German Sub gun did not fire"
More great information.
Sincerely,
Dima (isn't research great!)
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Post by crazydima on Dec 31, 2008 23:52:56 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
Here are some quotes from Mansur Abdulin's memoirs titles "Red Road from Stalingrad."
"Firing captured flare guns" Sounds like fun
"..our mortar crew had a Maxim and MG-34." Is that part of their T.O.& E.?
"used captured German ammo" It still goes boom
Plenty of non issue items here.
Sincerely,
Dima (I love history)
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Post by crazydima on Jan 1, 2009 0:04:37 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
This detail is from 8 vol. series Memories of War and is Elena Rzhevskaia memoirs titled "Roads and Days."
She wrote this of the airborne troops she encountered..."with Finnish knives on their belts......."
Sincerely,
Dima (Bring on the details)
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Post by crazydima on Jan 5, 2009 17:05:54 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
This is from the memoirs of Sgt. Simeon Aria and is from the 5th volume of the "Memories of War".
He was in a variety of units from tanks to Penal to Katiushas.
"I had a carbine, an SMG, and a German SMG. I carried it to the very end of the war."
Imagine that another reference to a German SMG being carried by a Frontovik.
Sincerely,
Dima
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bef
Junior Sergeant
In Mother Russian, A Big Man has a Big Hat.
Posts: 93
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Post by bef on Mar 22, 2009 11:44:28 GMT -5
Trophy Weapons were used, however if your Commander says HET!... you didn't use them, or you lost them quickly after using them.. . Being unpatriotic was something your Regiments OO "Special Department" looked for.. they too have Quotas to fill. .
I do have Various Trophy Gear but only use it as a Gag to my Normal Red Army Scale of Issue... to suit what I'm showing.
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Post by vsahdneek on Apr 21, 2009 19:24:12 GMT -5
Here's some pure speculation... could it be like in the German military that new units recently formed tended to be by the book, but that rear area units, territorials, partisans, infiltrators, spies, and units in the thick of things would more likely have an abundance of captured weapons?... and that later as a sector went quiet or as a unit got withdrawn from the front for R+R/rebuild it would have its surplus hardware given to a supply unit and be brought back into compliance with TO+E?
I know the Germans were so used to using captured gear they gave them new German designations... I have even seen a pic of a Russian Maxim MG on the WESTERN front!!! They were particularily fond of the SVT and PPsh, and captured mortars, AT guns, and captured armor... the armor esp was used for anti-partisan Police armored units.
Vlad V.
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Post by crazydima on Apr 22, 2009 15:53:32 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
I have more first hand RKKA accounts of foreign weapons use to post but time is a premium at the moment.
The great thing about the accounts given above regarding RKKA use of foreign weapons use is that most of it thankfully is self explanatory and eliminates the need to speculate.
Regardless of which army or what time period I have found that soldiers will do or acquire whatever it takes to increase the chances of survival and or success of the mission despite regulations.
The front line is a different world from the rear area and what would never be tolerated behind the front often becomes the norm at the front.
Interestingly I have found very little if any mentions of RKKA troops getting much if any time in the rear areas for R&R. Instead what I have encountered are stories of Frontoviks on a constant war footing at the front.
This perhaps would be a good topic to start another thread on to see what we can find out regarding R&R in rear areas for font line troops.
The first hand accounts I have of GI use of foreign weapons would blow the mind of many "know it all" GI re-enactors and their tales of "no use of captured weapons" at re-enactments. LOL!
Sadly this is often true of many Ostfront re-enactors as well.
That is why it is so important to get folks to do research and not just rely on a certain few to tell us what we need to do or allow re-enactorisms to be the rule the hobby.
Keep up the good work!
Sincerely,
Dima
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Post by horsesoldier176 on May 28, 2009 13:02:04 GMT -5
I generally do not allow my troopers to carry captured weapons, although there are exceptions to this policy.
Since as a mounted unit we move back, and forth across the "front", when operating deep in the enemies rear, we will carry enemy weapons simply for the logistical reasons.
We also liaise with partisan units, who commonly have captured weapons.
At living history events, we commonly display "Trophy" weapons.
Boridin
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Post by dixieflyer on Jun 9, 2009 9:37:04 GMT -5
Dima, I have Litvin's and Bessonov's memiors, and have enjoyed them greatly. However, I do not have the multi-volume set of "Memories" that you are quoting from. Could you enlighten me to these volumes so that I can acquire them? On or off-list, either way is fine with me. Spaceba!
Yuri Stakhanov 19GMB
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Post by vsahdneek on Jun 13, 2009 2:14:43 GMT -5
I Have a large foto of 101st GI Airborne and one soldat is carrying a k-98 and another has on a German web belt with a German stick grenade stuffed into it.
I think it is usually wise to be closer to regs for LH events (because we are teaching the public)but do what ya gotta do at tacticals... more fun that way and usually more firepower to boot!
Vlad
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Post by horsesoldier176 on Jun 14, 2009 21:32:11 GMT -5
I Have a large foto of 101st GI Airborne and one soldat is carrying a k-98 and another has on a German web belt with a German stick grenade stuffed into it. I think it is usually wise to be closer to regs for LH events (because we are teaching the public)but do what ya gotta do at tacticals... more fun that way and usually more firepower to boot! Vlad Tovarisch Cpl; Keep in mind that U.S. policy on the picking up, use of, carrying, and sending home of "Trophies" was far more relaxed than any other nation in the war. The Soviet government did not want soldiers taking, or keeping enemy weapons for themselves, as they feared that someday those weapons might be turned on the Soviet regime. It is much the same reason that modern Democrats in the U.S. oppose private ownership of firearms, but I drift off topic. You can not, and should not view Red Army policy, or even reality, by the policy, or reality of the U.S. military at the same time period. Boridin
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Post by vsahdneek on Jun 15, 2009 4:23:44 GMT -5
I think in general soldats of all nations do what they need to to survive and ignore policies regardless of who makes them unless actually threatened by a superior authority who makes a habit of carrying out their threats of enforcement. The 101 troopers lost alot of their gear after parachuting out of aircraft or landing in gliders.... and picked up what they could in some cases to use as needed. The Germans certainly were big users of captured gear as well... and Dima here has certainly showed that even RKKA soldats ignored regs in order to survive. No doubt I think that if a unit was decimated and sent to the rear to reform they may have been stripped of foreign gear and been reissued soviet gear when possible as I suggested earlier.... musn't be contaminated by western ideas or gear no doubt!... but we all know how policy is often brushed aside by battlefield necessity, eh, Sr Sgt?
Vlad
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