HRS April 19th Meeting Minutes - Part 2

[crazydima]

Tovarischi,

Here is part 2 of the meeting minutes for the April 19th HRS meeting.

The techincal apsects of this board only allow for a maximum number of characters to be posted. Due to the length of the minutes from Apil 19th it exceeds this maximum and so it has to be posted in two parts.

I have not revised or altered the minutes and are posted as I received them.

Enjoy!

Sincerely,

Dima

Discussion moved to the charges lodged against Tim Scherrer for removal from the Society.


Mr. Scherrer has conducted himself in a manner which the majority of the WWII HRS Board of Directors and others consider a threat to the integrity, and indeed, to the very continuation of the Society by:


First Issue
Posting unwarranted ‘dirty laundry’ political emails on re-enactor message boards and discussion groups which include members of multiple societies. While the intent may have been to shed light on what he perceived as wrong-doing by members of the WWII HRS Board, the result has been to give the Society, as a whole, a tarnished reputation and to spread political discontent outside of the bounds of professionalism.


Motion made by RP to accept charge and seconded by DH.


Vote taken and unanimously passed.


Second Issue
In making these postings to internet forums, he has violated the trust of the members, as well as the Board of Directors, of this Society and breached Article XIII, Number 8, ‘Proprietary Society membership information cannot be released without the Board of Directors as well as the individual member’s approval.’


Motion made by MF to accept charge and seconded by DH.


Vote taken and unanimously passed.


Bringing unfounded and baseless accusations against the current Treasurer who has served the Board and Society in an exemplary manner for more than four (4) years.


Motion made by RP to accept charge and seconded by DH.


Vote taken and passed with a vote of 4 to 1. One abstention was noted


Pursuant to Article III, Section 4, Mr. Scherrer’s conduct has discredited this Society.


Motion made by DH to accept charge and seconded by RP.


Vote taken and unanimously passed.


All requests Mr. Scherrer has made of the Board have been fulfilled in regards to insurance and membership information requests. The board also responded to his issue with the Board not taking minutes at some past meetings with Marilyn Fornell volunteering to step down as Secretary so another person could be appointed to that position. However, these actions were not enough for Mr. Scherrer who has continued to attack the Board over these same issues in e-mails both to the Board and to members of the Society. The tone and content of his correspondence with the HRS Board and other HRS members has gone beyond questioning authority and asking questions, and has entered the realm of pure harassment and libel.


Motion made by MF to accept charge and seconded by RP.


Vote taken and unanimously passed.


Mr. Scherrer created a Yahoo discussion group earlier this year to which he selectively invited certain HRS members to participate in e-mail discussions. He made it clear he wanted to form a group which opposes the current Board and invited individuals to a place in private, away from the public eye, where they could discuss how to change the current makeup of the board and current by-laws. Messages posted on this group included one-sided accusations about members of the Board or by-law interpretations to which the Board and general membership were not invited to participate in any rebuttal. And, additionally, had no way of

knowing about or the ability to respond in any way. While the intent of this group may have been to discuss new ideas for the betterment of the HRS, much of the result has been to breed additional discontent, distrust and suspicion within the society by providing a platform for misinformation about the true nature of current affairs within the Society.


Discussion ensued with DF stating that Greg Lee confirmed to him that there was a Yahoo group, but the discussions, in his opinion were ‘pretty laid back’. Fornell mentioned that there were accusations being made and this is the reason why Lee and his unit commander were writing nasty emails. Emotions were running high, and that it was not fair because the board did not have an opportunity to read what was being written. DF stated that people have a right to face their accusers if they are going to be accused of something. D. Halseth asked if any of the current board members had been invited to join this Yahoo group and the response was 100% “No”.


Motion made by RP to accept charge and seconded by MF.


Vote taken and unanimously passed.


All charges were unanimously accepted by board. D. Fornell asked if there was anyone who wished to discuss the matter further before voting to discharge Scherrer from the Society and the response was negative.


Discussion ensued that the probability of Scherrer appealing the board’s decision would be eminent. MF made statement that he was welcome to appeal the decision, but that he needed to realize that he the right to appeal it to the board only.


Motion made to discharge Tim Scherrer from the Society made by RP and seconded DH.


Vote taken and unanimously passed.


BJ brought up the fact that Mr. Bollow may need to have this action brought against him as well. DF stated that he has been telling MB this for some time. DH asked if the charges against Bollow were going to be brought up at this meeting and DF stated that they were received too late and would be brought up at a subsequent meeting.


Respectfully submitted,


Marilyn Fornell, Former Treasurer
6/5/06

[35divmp]

crazydima said:

Here is part 2 of the meeting minutes for the April 19th HRS meeting.

Discussion moved to the charges lodged against Tim Scherrer for removal from the Society.

Mr. Scherrer has conducted himself in a manner which the majority of the WWII HRS Board of Directors and others consider a threat to the integrity, and indeed, to the very continuation of the Society by:

First Issue
Posting unwarranted ‘dirty laundry’ political emails on re-enactor message boards and discussion groups which include members of multiple societies. While the intent may have been to shed light on what he perceived as wrong-doing by members of the WWII HRS Board, the result has been to give the Society, as a whole, a tarnished reputation and to spread political discontent outside of the bounds of professionalism.

Motion made by RP to accept charge and seconded by DH.

Vote taken and unanimously passed.

First... Where is it illegal to speak out in public (internet or anywhere else) about something you don't like?

The US Constitution has something called the "Bill of Rights" which includes "Freedom of Speech." As long as Tim didn't go beyond the limits of decency (calling the BoD "c*cks*ck*rs" or worse) then he's being a good American and pointing out what he thinks is wrong.

crazydima said:

Second Issue
In making these postings to internet forums, he has violated the trust of the members, as well as the Board of Directors, of this Society and breached Article XIII, Number 8, ‘Proprietary Society membership information cannot be released without the Board of Directors as well as the individual member’s approval.’

Motion made by MF to accept charge and seconded by DH.

Vote taken and unanimously passed.

What super-secret stuff did Tim release? The formula for the Orgasm-bomb? Membership numbers? As long as Tim's not giving out membership addresses above the one's on the website, what's the big deal?

crazydima said:

Bringing unfounded and baseless accusations against the current Treasurer who has served the Board and Society in an exemplary manner for more than four (4) years.

Motion made by RP to accept charge and seconded by DH.

Vote taken and passed with a vote of 4 to 1. One abstention was noted

Tim probably should have realized that he wasn't going to get anywhere with complaining to the BoD about one of their own. Tim's a good friend and I've known him on and off for over 20 years, but he's not the nicest or most "people-person" guy in the world.

crazydima said:

Pursuant to Article III, Section 4, Mr. Scherrer’s conduct has discredited this Society.

Motion made by DH to accept charge and seconded by RP.

Vote taken and unanimously passed.

? What did he do to discredit the Society? It's not like the Society is Ford, Budweiser, the American Red Cross or anyother big American profit or non-profit organization. The HRS has less than a 1,000 members so it's just a drop in the bucket next to something important like the Salvation Army, for god's sake.

crazydima said:

All requests Mr. Scherrer has made of the Board have been fulfilled in regards to insurance and membership information requests. The board also responded to his issue with the Board not taking minutes at some past meetings with Marilyn Fornell volunteering to step down as Secretary so another person could be appointed to that position. However, these actions were not enough for Mr. Scherrer who has continued to attack the Board over these same issues in e-mails both to the Board and to members of the Society. The tone and content of his correspondence with the HRS Board and other HRS members has gone beyond questioning authority and asking questions, and has entered the realm of pure harassment and libel.

Motion made by MF to accept charge and seconded by RP.

Vote taken and unanimously passed.

At times Tim is like a big dog, once he's got his teeth in something, he just won't let go. But the BoD should have just ignored him or (what I would have done) put him in charge of a committee to work out a system or strategy to prevent this problem from happening again. But they didn't.

crazydima said:

Mr. Scherrer created a Yahoo discussion group earlier this year to which he selectively invited certain HRS members to participate in e-mail discussions. He made it clear he wanted to form a group which opposes the current Board and invited individuals to a place in private, away from the public eye, where they could discuss how to change the current makeup of the board and current by-laws. Messages posted on this group included one-sided accusations about members of the Board or by-law interpretations to which the Board and general membership were not invited to participate in any rebuttal. And, additionally, had no way of knowing about or the ability to respond in any way. While the intent of this group may have been to discuss new ideas for the betterment of the HRS, much of the result has been to breed additional discontent, distrust and suspicion within the society by providing a platform for misinformation about the true nature of current affairs within the Society.

Discussion ensued with DF stating that Greg Lee confirmed to him that there was a Yahoo group, but the discussions, in his opinion were ‘pretty laid back’. Fornell mentioned that there were accusations being made and this is the reason why Lee and his unit commander were writing nasty emails. Emotions were running high, and that it was not fair because the board did not have an opportunity to read what was being written. DF stated that people have a right to face their accusers if they are going to be accused of something. D. Halseth asked if any of the current board members had been invited to join this Yahoo group and the response was 100% “No”.

Motion made by RP to accept charge and seconded by MF.

Vote taken and unanimously passed.

This is just silly. The BoD thinks they have the power to run our lives like this? If you, me and Tim were writing letters back and forth and we ended all the letters with "Down with the HRS BoD!" then we'd be as guilty as if we had our own private Yahoo group. It's not like Tim was running an on-line porn site with small furry animals, all he was doing was allowing a private conversation and he doesn't have to allow anybody he doesn't want on it. It's private and he doesn't have to "invite" anyone.

crazydima said:

All charges were unanimously accepted by board. D. Fornell asked if there was anyone who wished to discuss the matter further before voting to discharge Scherrer from the Society and the response was negative.

Discussion ensued that the probability of Scherrer appealing the board’s decision would be eminent. MF made statement that he was welcome to appeal the decision, but that he needed to realize that he the right to appeal it to the board only.

Motion made to discharge Tim Scherrer from the Society made by RP and seconded DH.

Vote taken and unanimously passed.

Yeah, right. Tim's going to appeal to the same people who convicted him. Talk about a "drumhead" trial. You're guilty and you wish to appeal? Ok, you've appealed and you're still guilty! What an organization!

crazydima said:

BJ brought up the fact that Mr. Bollow may need to have this action brought against him as well. DF stated that he has been telling MB this for some time. DH asked if the charges against Bollow were going to be brought up at this meeting and DF stated that they were received too late and would be brought up at a subsequent meeting.

Respectfully submitted,
Marilyn Fornell, Former Treasurer
6/5/06

And yes, just for the record, I am not a current member of the HRS, but I'm seeing history repeat itself just like it did in the HRS in 1987-88. There was a LOT of discontent back then and it led to the birth of the TSG.

Let's see a show of hands on how many think that'll happen again?

Jay

[daveww2]

Quote:

"At times Tim is like a big dog, once he's got his teeth in something, he just won't let go. But the BoD should have just ignored him or (what I would have done) put him in charge of a committee to work out a system or strategy to prevent this problem from happening again. But they didn't."

[glow=red,2,300]Answer:

NOT TRUE!

Ignore Tim... what planet are you from? You Ignore Tim and his screech just gets louder. Do you really know Tim?

Tim was asked to volunteer for the secretary's role by most the members of the BOD when he started his questions about the minutes -- all we got was a long list of excuses of why he couldn't. Then just more continued critisim of those who don't make excuses and actually step up and try to do.

Tim was asked a few times why he doesn't run for BOD positions since he seems to have such a vast knowlledge/grasp of how things should operate? Answer was the same as all his answers have been when asked to pitch in, a long list of excuses of why he can't and continued harrasment of those who don't make excuses.

It's easy to be critical of those who do, it's harder to be one of those who actually do and just don't talk about doing.[/glow]------------------------------
Quote:

"Yeah, right. Tim's going to appeal to the same people who convicted him. Talk about a "drumhead" trial. You're guilty and you wish to appeal? Ok, you've appealed and you're still guilty! What an organization!"

[glow=red,2,300]Answer:

Obviously you haven't been paying attention... Tim's appeal is NOT going thru the same BOD members who kicked him out, it is going thru a review committee headed by Greg Lee. Boy that sure is actions of a group trying to cover something up or sweep something under a rug -- what were we thinking?

If the BOD was a evil as you are trying to make us out to be, why would we have agreed to an Unit CO committee to review our actions? Boy we must really be try'n to hide what we did and be sweep what we did under the rug? Who the heck do we think we are?[/glow]-----------------------------------------

Quote:

"This is just silly. The BoD thinks they have the power to run our lives like this? If you, me and Tim were writing letters back and forth and we ended all the letters with "Down with the HRS BoD!" then we'd be as guilty as if we had our own private Yahoo group. It's not like Tim was running an on-line porn site with small furry animals, all he was doing was allowing a private conversation and he doesn't have to allow anybody he doesn't want on it. It's private and he doesn't have to "invite" anyone."

[glow=red,2,300]Answer:

OK than why call it an HRS reform board and then go out of your way to contact the BOD and notify the BOD of it's existance? Like you're try'n to rub the BODs noses in something...? If it's a private group than who cares what the HRS BOD would think when we found out about it then? Why bother even telling us about it's existance? Since when did Tim give a Rats rear end what the HRS BOD thought of him?[/glow]
----------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"? What did he do to discredit the Society? It's not like the Society is Ford, Budweiser, the American Red Cross or anyother big American profit or non-profit organization. The HRS has less than a 1,000 members so it's just a drop in the bucket next to something important like the Salvation Army, for god's sake."

[glow=red,2,300]Answer:

You obviously don't get it, so I'm not going to waste my effort[/glow].
-------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Tim probably should have realized that he wasn't going to get anywhere with complaining to the BoD about one of their own. Tim's a good friend and I've known him on and off for over 20 years, but he's not the nicest or most "people-person" guy in the world."

[glow=red,2,300]Answer:

One of our own? She was elected by majority of those who voted in the elcetion. She was one of ALL OF OUR OWN, since we (the HRS membership) elected her. How was she one of OUR (the BODs) own? What do you actually mean here?

Show me where Tim's concerns weren't addressed? Tim's concerns were addressed by the BOD -- see the minutes! "

You know, she tried to resign completely both her positions (her resignation was rejected by the WHOLE BOD -- including Palmer) and she ended up just resigning the secretry's position.

When all this is finnaly finished and all is known, there are going to be many who are going to realize what a GREAT asset Marilyn Fornell has been and was to this society. I consider an honor to have served with her on the BOD.[/glow]
-----------------------------------------------

Quote:

"What super-secret stuff did Tim release? The formula for the Orgasm-bomb? Membership numbers? As long as Tim's not giving out membership addresses above the one's on the website, what's the big deal?"

[glow=red,2,300]Answer:

You're not an HRS member and haven't been an HRS member for many years, so what difference does it make to you anyway? You obviously don't get it.[/glow]
-----------------------------------------

[glow=red,2,300]Well with the rotten job this BOD must have done over the past years with the society I find it hard to believe the HRS membership has surpassed 800 members?

Also with all the comments I read here and elsewhere from all the experts, I expect to see a very long list of names stepping forward to run in the upcoming election for all the open BOD positions -- NOT!

I wont hold my breath.

OK I'm done, I refuse to comment any further right now. [/glow]

[35divmp]

Dave:

Ahhh, I'm beginning to understand. Only YOU have the right to an opinion on this subject since you are a member of the BoD.

I want to thank you for your reply, it only confirms my hypothesis that the HRS has not fundamentally changed since the "rule by decree" days in the late 1980s.

If someone else has an opinion that doesn't match yours, then he/she is just wrong and should be slammed into the ground for daring to have an opinion. What a great organization!

If you had bothered to actually READ what I wrote in regards to the April 19th minutes, you would have realized that I was refering to those minutes and that BoD, not the current BoD.

But your tactics (as I have noticed on several other boards) is to denounce, degrade, and denigrate all who dare have an opinion tha is contary to yours by talking down to the other person with snide comments and smilies. There are no "grey areas" for you.

But once agin I want to thank you for seeing the error of my ways, thoughts, and actions. You have helped immensely in what organization I decide to send my money to.

Jay

[daveww2]

;DJay,

More of the same from you too... the old Pot calling the Kettle Black routine ;D I yield the floor back to you since apparently it really doesn't matter what I write here or any where anyways Why do I bother So I will not waste any my further efforts or anybody else's time -- I should have known better. What the heck was I thinking?

I think I'll go back to what I've been doing the past few months/weeks, not even bothering reading or posting on the threads related to this subject. Talk about people being narrow minded and having issues... in the immortal words of Barney Rubble ;D: sheez.

;DSay no more... a nod is as good as a wink to a blind bat

Crucification, YES, Crucification, Yes....

Dave
-------------------------------

35divmp said:

Dave:

Ahhh, I'm beginning to understand. Only YOU have the right to an opinion on this subject since you are a member of the BoD.

I want to thank you for your reply, it only confirms my hypothesis that the HRS has not fundamentally changed since the "rule by decree" days in the late 1980s.

If someone else has an opinion that doesn't match yours, then he/she is just wrong and should be slammed into the ground for daring to have an opinion. What a great organization!

If you had bothered to actually READ what I wrote in regards to the April 19th minutes, you would have realized that I was refering to those minutes and that BoD, not the current BoD.

But your tactics (as I have noticed on several other boards) is to denounce, degrade, and denigrate all who dare have an opinion tha is contary to yours by talking down to the other person with snide comments and smilies. There are no "grey areas" for you.

But once agin I want to thank you for seeing the error of my ways, thoughts, and actions. You have helped immensely in what organization I decide to send my money to.

Jay

[Konstantin]

I am not a heavy handed moderator type, but I must say. Please keep it civil gentleman. I can see this degrading into something icky.

It hasn't but the potential is there.

Thank you.

-dave

[daveww2]

Dave,

No worries on this side... I said I'm thru posting in threads related to this subject on this forum and as of right NOW, I'm done.



DaahVeeD
-------------------------------------

admin said:

I am not a heavy handed moderator type, but I must say. Please keep it civil gentleman. I can see this degrading into something icky.

It hasn't but the potential is there.

Thank you.

-dave

[35divmp]

admin said:

I am not a heavy handed moderator type, but I must say. Please keep it civil gentleman. I can see this degrading into something icky.

It hasn't but the potential is there.

Thank you.

-dave

Dave:

I started this discussion by commenting on the recently released HRS minutes regarding Tim Scherer's possible explusion from the HRS. I did not name daveww2 by name in my comments nor did I ask him to respond personally. He took upon himself to respond in his normal manner to my questions and statements.

Instead of giving reason why the then sitting HRS BoD (which he is a member of) did what they did in regards to Mr. Scherer, he chose to merely "gainsay" me and tell me that I "just don't understand." Not much of an answer.

I'm a former newspaper reporter and editor who when asks questions, hopes to get intelligent answers. I'm also a former HRS member and Point editor, who was planning on returning to the HRS. But not at this time now. In the 1970s and early-to-middle 1980s everyone was entitled to their opinion and allowed to state their opinion freely. But not anymore in the HRS, according to daveww2, only those "who need to know, should know."

Attitudes like this in 1987 caused the formation of the TSG. History has a tendency to repeat itself, and when we don't learn from previous mistakes, we WILL repeat them.

I wish the new HRS BoD all the best, for they have an uphill battle before them. If they are able to fix the mistakes of the previous BoD, then they should consider running for re-election. If they cannot fix it, then the HRS is truely in trouble.

Jay

[daveww2]

Jay,



Dave
-----------------------------------

35divmp said:

admin said:

I am not a heavy handed moderator type, but I must say. Please keep it civil gentleman. I can see this degrading into something icky.

It hasn't but the potential is there.

Thank you.

-dave

Dave:

I started this discussion by commenting on the recently released HRS minutes regarding Tim Scherer's possible explusion from the HRS. I did not name daveww2 by name in my comments nor did I ask him to respond personally. He took upon himself to respond in his normal manner to my questions and statements.

Instead of giving reason why the then sitting HRS BoD (which he is a member of) did what they did in regards to Mr. Scherer, he chose to merely "gainsay" me and tell me that I "just don't understand." Not much of an answer.

I'm a former newspaper reporter and editor who when asks questions, hopes to get intelligent answers. I'm also a former HRS member and Point editor, who was planning on returning to the HRS. But not at this time now. In the 1970s and early-to-middle 1980s everyone was entitled to their opinion and allowed to state their opinion freely. But not anymore in the HRS, according to daveww2, only those "who need to know, should know."

Attitudes like this in 1987 caused the formation of the TSG. History has a tendency to repeat itself, and when we don't learn from previous mistakes, we WILL repeat them.

I wish the new HRS BoD all the best, for they have an uphill battle before them. If they are able to fix the mistakes of the previous BoD, then they should consider running for re-election. If they cannot fix it, then the HRS is truely in trouble.

Jay

[Konstantin]

I'm not playing the blame game. I'm just issuing a caution not to let this discussion degrade in something ugly.

That's all. It hasn't but has potential.

-dave
416th

[airborne101]

You know I have been in the HRS for many Years now and I have seen the BOD come and go. The BOD need to make sure that everyone in the HRS is aware of whets going on. I have not seen that happen since all of this has gone on and it is wrong what the BOD has done to a few people in the HRS. We as a origination need to fix this very quickly before something goes south very quickly. Just my thoughts.
Anthony