Soviet losses

[richrauch]

I have been hearing recently that the real Soviet losses were around 71.4 million or 74.1 million. Can't remember which. With todays population, I could see these numbers, but the population was lower then. The Germans always claim that they inflcitected more than the 21 M losses, civilians included, but I have been able to verify this "newly released KGB info".

Any one here hear these numbers or am I being told some tall stories?
Sorry if this sounds so stupid, but I thought this would be a good place to ask.

Rich (Will)

[Konstantin]

richrauch said:

I have been hearing recently that the real Soviet losses were around 71.4 million or 74.1 million.

Nope that's way too high. Almost 1/3 of the population of the USSR. Never seen it that high.

Erickson states the numbers as high as 29mil. Recent "revisions" I have seen place it up to 32mil. Glantz has it somewhere between 27-29 mil IIRC.

I would tend to think it was around the 29mil figure. I don't have Ericksons book here at work, but he breaks it down into military & civilian.

Anyway you look at it, it is a brutal number. Prewar population of the USSR didn't not return until the 1970's.

-dave
416th

[richrauch]

Dave, those numbers look like they would be in line with the population of the time. (175m?) The source I was haring it from was a radio show i used to listen to called the Gordon Lidy show. he was siting a former KGB agant as source. Since I stoped listening to the show I have began to doubt alot of what he said.

I was also thinking it was about 1/3 of the population and had a hard time believing it. I figured Soviet reenactors would have studdied it more and have a reasonably good anwer.

I can see the 27-29M including civilians. Only the Russian people with a ruller like Stalin could withstand that. I have often wondered it the losses then were a factor in the cold war never going any farther than it did.

[Konstantin]

Okey dokey,

Here is what is in Erickson's book to help put the war into perspective. These numbers reflect June 22 1941 to May 9 1945, ok a few days longer if you wanna be technical all due to the Army Group holding out in Czechoslovakia.

The Soviet armed forces mobilized 29,574,900 and turnover was 21,700,000 of which 11,440,100 were killed. Includes those that died in POW camps.

Civilian losses caused by the Germans were 16,350,000. This includes slave labourers deported to the Reich, the work of the Einsatzgruppen, etc.

That totals 27,790,100.

Each minute of the war on the eastern front cost 9-10 lives. 587 each hour and 14,000 each day.

Those totals of course do not count Stalins own issues. The 7-9mil ukrainians killed during forced collectivization in the 30's. Those killed during the terror of the purges. Those that lost their lives due to mass deportations of certain "pro-german" regions of the USSR.

There probably will be never a definitive number of deaths known as they tend to revise them every so often.

However that does show the level of sacrifice in the east as we approach the June 22 anniversary.

Hope that helps.

-dave
416th/117th

[richrauch]

dave, thankyou.

You speak of Ericksons book a couple of times. what is this book so i may read it myself.

Thank you

[Konstantin]

The book I got those numbers is Erickson's "Eastern Front in Photographs" which is a basic overview of the war with lots of pictures.

For a more in depth view of the war you can check out his two volume series. Road to Stalingrad and Road to Berlin.

There are others too, he is a very prolific eastern front authour.

-dave