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Post by horsesoldier176 on Jun 12, 2009 9:10:14 GMT -5
The Battle of the Bulge event at Ft. Indiantown Gap in late January, while not a Eastern front event, has tolerated the presence of Red Army troops (namely me) for the past three years. I would like to see more Red Army troops attend to further expand the horizons of our Allied Comrades. Many of them still think they (the western Allies) won the Great Patriotic War.
I attend as both a member of the AOM (Allied Observation Mission) which was a program that attached Red Army troops, as observers to U.S., and British Army units, and vice versa. I also do my KMD (Kommandantura [Red Army military police]) impression there. I would be happy to have more comrades attend this event with me. I use sarcastic humor to poke fun at our Allied Comrades, when they do the whole "We won the war" BS.
If you have any interest in attending this as a Red Army observer, and/or KMD auxiliary, please contact me directly.
Spaceba
Sr. Sgt. Boridin
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Post by velodya on Jun 13, 2009 10:21:36 GMT -5
That sounds like fun!
A personal hobby of mine is trying to correct the national ego trip online. I almost died laughing when Obama and friends said D-Day saved the world from evil. No Mister President, that would be Stalingrad.
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Post by vsahdneek on Jun 14, 2009 0:14:54 GMT -5
Or Iwo Jima
Vlad
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Post by velodya on Jun 14, 2009 21:41:13 GMT -5
I feel more ambivalent about the Pacific campaign. Japan's big failing was getting into the Imperialism game too late.
Minor Rant Warning:
I also can't condone many American acts in the war. I've seen propaganda films of American pilots machine-gunning rafts of Japanese sailors from sunken merchant ships. You missed that one soldier, but- good work! A dead jap is a good jap.
I'm by no means a PC person, but I can't handle that level of racism. It was pretty darn bad.
I also take issue with dropping the bombs. Marshall and the entire Manhattan Project team told Truman not to use them on a city, but he ignored them. I figure it was for two reasons:
1. It was a test of the weapon on an actual city.
2. It was a threat to the Rodina. see what we can do Ivan?
It was made easier by our racist views at the time.
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Post by vsahdneek on Jun 15, 2009 4:39:08 GMT -5
The US bombed Dresden to rubble for the same 'reasons'... as a 'test' and to show Ivan who could be nasty...
The rape of Nanking is a good movie to see about Jap nastiness...
after my research I can say with no equivocation that all the major players were guilty of warcrimes but Germany is the one that get's the most undeserved uberblame.... they were simply not as bad as currently described nor the allies as good as they think.
The style of war in ww2 was essentially indiscriminate. The concept of precision bombing in ww2 was a joke after they started to bomb at night and do 1000 bomber wingtip to wingtip stuff. I hated the atom bomb too. To me all strategic bombing of civilian population centers is a warcrime... it says so in the Geneva Accords too, but that document gets used for asswipe by most nations when it interferes with their perverted sense of self - interest.
War brings out the worst in most people... dang few are enobled by it.
Vlad
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Post by dixieflyer on Jun 15, 2009 7:54:29 GMT -5
Minor rant warning
Guys, don't judge the past through your current/present day lenses. Who are we to judge, had we been in the same seat, we would not have done the same thing? I get this all the time in the classroom, students judging the actions of others in the past based on what will always be limited knowledge due to your distance from the scene. You may not condone it, sitting here all fat, dumb, happy and safe in your house by your PC, but none of us will never know the weight of those decisions made by the people there on the ground at the time.
Yuri
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Post by velodya on Jun 15, 2009 11:43:16 GMT -5
I'm with you on that Tovarisch Vsahdneek.
Tovarisch Yuri: I think abandoning our perspectives is no easier than trying to live without breathing. What's telling is that we executed our enemies for "war crimes" (note: I'm not referencing the Holocaust) that we ourselves had committed.
When one is involved in the issue at stake, there is precious little neutral ground. You are either intensely in favor of it, or intensely opposed to it. Time brings detachment, and detachment brings impartiality. Today we are better set to judge the events of the past. History makes it clear, and I feel very comfortable with the opinions I have arrived it.
I do hate revisionist history. That category includes almost everything every written on the War Between the States. We pretend the war was all about ending slavery when it was actually about depriving the Southern States of their right to secession. We sugar coat actions like that and teach little kids songs about "Honest Abe" and ignore the part where he suspends Habeas Corpus.
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Post by andreev on Jun 15, 2009 14:43:43 GMT -5
That sounds like fun! A personal hobby of mine is trying to correct the national ego trip online. I almost died laughing when Obama and friends said D-Day saved the world from evil. No Mister President, that would be Stalingrad. It's pretty much standard for American Presidents to go to Normandy and give speeches of praise--Both Bushes did, as did Clinton and Reagan...The WWII allied alliance was not a zero sum game; no involved nation "won" the war on their own...Sometimes, I think that reenactors see their impression like they would a favored sports team: something to defend at all costs. That's a parochial view, and not one worthy Historians...I prefer to honor ALL the veterans who fought the Nazis and Japanese Empire, as their sacrifices ensured my freedoms. -Matt |
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Post by vsahdneek on Jun 16, 2009 16:30:10 GMT -5
Well Matt, look at how little the congressional socialists think of your freedoms now... or those in Europe we think we 'liberated'... the sad fact is that governments are jealous for their accumulated power and like to exploit us and think we are there to serve THEM and not the other way around as our founding fathers tried to make so in our Constitution... a ducument neither Lincoln or FDR liked to honor too much.
I for one believe ww2 and ww1 have alot in common and were both wars of expoitation by the rich and powerful aimed against the masses and their longings to be free of such manipulation. Whenever the rich and powerful fear the peasants and their pitchforks they wup up nationalism and beat the war drum and distract us with external enemies.
The south was expoited by northern industrialists who had passed export taxes on them in order to subsidize their infrastructural projects, and the south objected to this regional brand of socialism... that figured into it too... that and the north's harrassment and condescension about what was at that time a legal institution (slavery) that they could not end through legal means.
Vlad
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Post by andreev on Jun 17, 2009 13:55:16 GMT -5
I'm genuinely sorry you're so bitter--I've gathered from your posts that you're good people, and I wish this country lived up to your expectations.
One truth I've learned is that the reasons COUNTRIES go to war are rarely the reason SOLDIERS go to war. I didn't go for WMD's or Iraqi Democracy or Halliburton's profits. I went because my soldiers were kids, and I thought if I was there they'd have a better chance of making it home. I know that sounds naive now, but it kept me up a lot of nights back then.
No one who wasn't there knows or cares what my soldiers did; we were just one company out of thousands. But I reenact because I don't want our veterans to be mere statistics (250K+ killed in WWII, 4k+ in Iraq, etc). I don't want my troops--or anyone elses-- to be abstracts. I can't change the country, but I can try to educate one member of the public at a time.
Peace, Brother,
-Matt
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Post by dixieflyer on Jun 17, 2009 14:38:56 GMT -5
I'm genuinely sorry you're so bitter--I've gathered from your posts that you're good people, and I wish this country lived up to your expectations. One truth I've learned is that the reasons COUNTRIES go to war are rarely the reason SOLDIERS go to war. I didn't go for WMD's or Iraqi Democracy or Halliburton's profits. I went because my soldiers were kids, and I thought if I was there they'd have a better chance of making it home. I know that sounds naive now, but it kept me up a lot of nights back then. No one who wasn't there knows or cares what my soldiers did; we were just one company out of thousands. But I reenact because I don't want our veterans to be mere statistics (250K+ killed in WWII, 4k+ in Iraq, etc). I don't want my troops--or anyone elses-- to be abstracts. I can't change the country, but I can try to educate one member of the public at a time. Peace, Brother, -Matt Matt, I wasn't there, but I care, sometimes I think I care too much. And yes, your caring for those soldiers place in your care and charge I am sure did help, but maybe it helped in ways you/I/we might never know. FWIW, YMMV, Yuri |
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Post by velodya on Jun 17, 2009 15:05:28 GMT -5
I'm never bitter, but always cynical.
Thanks for your service Matt.
-Velodya
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Post by crazydima on Jun 22, 2009 21:27:40 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
As for our war with Japan I have no problems with the conduct of our United States forces and how they executed the war against the Empire of Japan. Sadly the people of Japan got what they deserved. War crimes on our part? Nope don't think so. The aggressor sets the tone.
Japan set the standard as the aggressor. The cruelty of her forces knew no limits. Have you forgotten the bio and chemical warfare experiments on civilians and POWS? Nanking should be a lasting reminder as well as Bataan. Don't forget the folks they loaded up form the Aleutians and shipped back to Japan as slave labor. My personal favorite are the 9,000 balloon bombs they sent over to kill us. The sea plane raids on the west coast were a nice touch as well.
Another interesting tidbit are the photos of industrial machining equipment being found in the burned out homes of the "RESIDENTIAL" areas of Japanese cities.
To put it simply it started with their attack on Pearl, Dutch Harbor and the Philippines and it ended with our dropping the second A-bomb on Nagasaki. Those who speak of the supposed surrender negotiations by Japan are missing a few facts. The Japanese wanted to surrender on their terms. These terms involved....disarming themselves, conducting their own war crimes trails, and no foreign occupation force to name a few. Gee, and folks wonder why we dropped the bombs.
Even after the first bomb detonated the Emperor and his fanatical military commanders were still willing to fight to the end. The second bomb changed his mind but still a few of his commanders wanted to fight on.
An invasion of the home island of Japan would have cost many many U.S. lives.
We paid dearly for that victory and to cheapen it by talk of war crimes by our forces is truly sickening to me.
Having said that.......
This section is for Soviet events(re-enactments). If you want to continue this part of the discussion then start a thread under the appropriate section. This keeps things cleaner and easier to find.
Thanks!
Sincerely,
Dima
( A very proud American)
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Post by dixieflyer on Jun 22, 2009 21:36:14 GMT -5
Dima,
I made a couple of replies to this thread, but deleted them before posting, or very shortly after posting. I live in the shadow of what went on in the PTO everyday that I wake up, and cannot keep a civil tongue when it comes to this. Thank you for making a reasoned response which I was unable to do.
Yuri
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Post by crazydima on Jun 23, 2009 12:59:43 GMT -5
Tovarisch Yuri,
Not a problem.
Sincerely,
Dima
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