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Post by crazysasha on Nov 30, 2011 16:29:07 GMT -5
An interesting question indeed. Loading blanks for the Mosin Nagant is not really that much cheaper however loading for the 7.62x25 is a real savings. Depending on what you have to pay for the brass you can load these blanks for around $10 per 100. With more and more PPsh 41s and Pps 43s out there it could get expensive to shoot if you are paying $40 or more for blanks. Most of the members of our unit load their own and go to the field with 500 to 1000 rounds. I also load for my Tokarev TT pistol making a shorter round.
It is not hard or "rocket science" to load your own blanks and you can sure save a ton of money and it allows you to shoot more rounds.
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Post by horsesoldier176 on Nov 30, 2011 23:50:31 GMT -5
I have been reloading for 30 years, but I only started doing blanks within the last year.
As for 7.62 x 25 blanks, the easiest way to do it, is use 5.56mm/.223 brass. I run it through the full length sizing die for 7.62 x 25, leaving the decapping stem out. I then trim the excess off, leaving enough brass to simulate the length of a normal live round, when crimped. This reduces feeding problems. I use exactly the same round, and load in my sub guns, and TT-33. I took an old 9mm P barrel from a Chinese T-54 that a customer wanted converted to 7.62 x 25, drilled, and tapped the muzzle end, and installed a plug for blank use. This creates enough back pressure to cycle the slide.
After I have crimped the case, I plug the small hole that remains with just a small piece of bees wax, then I press the wax into the hole, and seal with cheap nail polish. I use bees wax because it is a natural wax, and therefore burns both completely, and cleanly in the bore. The nail polish acts as a sealant, preventing both propellant leakage, and moisture contamination. If you load different propellant volumes, you can use different nail polish colors to denote the different loads.
BTW: The biggest problem with loading your own 7.62 x 54/59 is finding the long necked brass. When you find it, it is usually expensive, and most of it is Berdan primed, which means after it is fired, it is scrap brass.
Boridin
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Post by crazysasha on Dec 1, 2011 16:14:23 GMT -5
My crimp die will close the case completely so no need for wax or whatever to keep the powder in. These feed perfectly in our weapons. As I always say, what ever works for you. I have been reloading for 30 years, but I only started doing blanks within the last year. As for 7.62 x 25 blanks, the easiest way to do it, is use 5.56mm/.223 brass. I run it through the full length sizing die for 7.62 x 25, leaving the decapping stem out. I then trim the excess off, leaving enough brass to simulate the length of a normal live round, when crimped. This reduces feeding problems. I use exactly the same round, and load in my sub guns, and TT-33. I took an old 9mm P barrel from a Chinese T-54 that a customer wanted converted to 7.62 x 25, drilled, and tapped the muzzle end, and installed a plug for blank use. This creates enough back pressure to cycle the slide. After I have crimped the case, I plug the small hole that remains with just a small piece of bees wax, then I press the wax into the hole, and seal with cheap nail polish. I use bees wax because it is a natural wax, and therefore burns both completely, and cleanly in the bore. The nail polish acts as a sealant, preventing both propellant leakage, and moisture contamination. If you load different propellant volumes, you can use different nail polish colors to denote the different loads. BTW: The biggest problem with loading your own 7.62 x 54/59 is finding the long necked brass. When you find it, it is usually expensive, and most of it is Berdan primed, which means after it is fired, it is scrap brass. Boridin |
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Post by crazysasha on Dec 5, 2011 14:17:03 GMT -5
Did you have to do anything else to the barrel of the TT other than drill and tap, such as remove the locking lugs from the barrel? What is the overall length of you 7.62x25 using the cut off system you use? What size orifice do you use in the subgun and the TT? Thanks for any information. I have been reloading for 30 years, but I only started doing blanks within the last year. As for 7.62 x 25 blanks, the easiest way to do it, is use 5.56mm/.223 brass. I run it through the full length sizing die for 7.62 x 25, leaving the decapping stem out. I then trim the excess off, leaving enough brass to simulate the length of a normal live round, when crimped. This reduces feeding problems. I use exactly the same round, and load in my sub guns, and TT-33. I took an old 9mm P barrel from a Chinese T-54 that a customer wanted converted to 7.62 x 25, drilled, and tapped the muzzle end, and installed a plug for blank use. This creates enough back pressure to cycle the slide. After I have crimped the case, I plug the small hole that remains with just a small piece of bees wax, then I press the wax into the hole, and seal with cheap nail polish. I use bees wax because it is a natural wax, and therefore burns both completely, and cleanly in the bore. The nail polish acts as a sealant, preventing both propellant leakage, and moisture contamination. If you load different propellant volumes, you can use different nail polish colors to denote the different loads. BTW: The biggest problem with loading your own 7.62 x 54/59 is finding the long necked brass. When you find it, it is usually expensive, and most of it is Berdan primed, which means after it is fired, it is scrap brass. Boridin |
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Post by horsesoldier176 on Dec 6, 2011 16:18:20 GMT -5
My crimp die will close the case completely so no need for wax or whatever to keep the powder in. These feed perfectly in our weapons. As I always say, what ever works for you. Sasha; You may think that the crimp is sealed, but I suggest you try putting a dab of nail polish on the top. If you get any air bubbles (which you almost certainly will), then it is not an air tight seal. BTW: The purpose of the wax is not to keep the propellant in, but moisture out. Depending on how long, and in what manner you store your ammo, (blanks in particular), moisture resistance is the most important factor. I use as many desiccant packs as I can get. I have two old refrigerators, that I use for ammo, and propellant/primer storage. I have several packs of desiccant in each, and at least twice a year, I take half of them out (I have each pack numbered as either 1, or 2). So as an example, in Jan I take out all the 1s, and warm them in my oven at the lowest temp for an hour, then in April, I do the 2s, and so on. Boridin |
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Post by crazysasha on Dec 6, 2011 16:38:52 GMT -5
While crossing a stream one of our members dropped his drum mag from his ppsh in a foot of water where it was submerged for a minute or so. Everyone of those rounds fired. I have been shooting blanks that I loaded a couple of years ago, no misfires. I do understand your point however. As I always say, whatever works for you. My crimp die will close the case completely so no need for wax or whatever to keep the powder in. These feed perfectly in our weapons. As I always say, what ever works for you. Sasha; You may think that the crimp is sealed, but I suggest you try putting a dab of nail polish on the top. If you get any air bubbles (which you almost certainly will), then it is not an air tight seal. BTW: The purpose of the wax is not to keep the propellant in, but moisture out. Depending on how long, and in what manner you store your ammo, (blanks in particular), moisture resistance is the most important factor. I use as many desiccant packs as I can get. I have two old refrigerators, that I use for ammo, and propellant/primer storage. I have several packs of desiccant in each, and at least twice a year, I take half of them out (I have each pack numbered as either 1, or 2). So as an example, in Jan I take out all the 1s, and warm them in my oven at the lowest temp for an hour, then in April, I do the 2s, and so on. Boridin |
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Post by horsesoldier176 on Dec 6, 2011 17:12:15 GMT -5
Sasha;
I do not recall the diameter of the hole I finally ended up with, but I made several plugs, until I settled on the one I thought worked best. No, I did not modify the barrel in any way other than plugging it. This allows the cycling of the slide to appear more realistic.
The 5.56mm/.223 brass, is run into the 7.62 x 25 full length sizing die (I use RCBS dies, so I don't know if this will work for any other brand of dies), with the decapping stem removed. I then trim the case to 1.390. After crimping, this is very close to the length of a normal live round. You may need to adjust this overall length to fit/work in your weapons.
Good luck!
Boridin
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Post by crazysasha on Dec 6, 2011 22:51:29 GMT -5
For my PPs 43 I use a .160 orifice and for my TT I use a .154. Both of these allow for the weapon to operate without any problems. The key is to operate the weapon at the lowest possible pressure that will still function the weapon reliably. My TT is converted to a blow back design instead of its locking design as orginally designed. Bulleseye is a fast burning powder that seems to work fantastic for this application.
As I always say, whatever works or something like that. LOL
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Post by horsesoldier176 on Dec 7, 2011 16:53:18 GMT -5
Sasha;
I also use Bulleye propellant for my blanks.
Boridin
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Post by crazysasha on Dec 7, 2011 23:24:43 GMT -5
What size of orifice do you have to use with the powder charge you use in both the TT and ppsh or 43?
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Post by horsesoldier176 on Dec 8, 2011 15:23:37 GMT -5
Sasha;
All my re-enacting weapons are secured in my units arms room, and I don't have time to go over to the facility to check.
Sorry
Boridin
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Post by crazysasha on Dec 9, 2011 14:11:59 GMT -5
Sasha; I also use Bulleye propellant for my blanks. Boridin How many grains of Bullseye do you use in your 7.62x25 Blanks? |
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Post by horsesoldier176 on Dec 9, 2011 15:56:28 GMT -5
How many grains of Bullseye do you use in your 7.62x25 Blanks? Sasha; For liability reasons I do not give my recipes, as I don't like getting sued. I recommend you try different loads, and use what works best in your weapons. Boridin |
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awb
Penal Battalion Conscript
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Post by awb on Jan 5, 2012 8:42:57 GMT -5
My crimp die will close the case completely so no need for wax or whatever to keep the powder in. These feed perfectly in our weapons. As I always say, what ever works for you. Sasha; You may think that the crimp is sealed, but I suggest you try putting a dab of nail polish on the top. If you get any air bubbles (which you almost certainly will), then it is not an air tight seal. BTW: The purpose of the wax is not to keep the propellant in, but moisture out. Depending on how long, and in what manner you store your ammo, (blanks in particular), moisture resistance is the most important factor. I use as many desiccant packs as I can get. I have two old refrigerators, that I use for ammo, and propellant/primer storage. I have several packs of desiccant in each, and at least twice a year, I take half of them out (I have each pack numbered as either 1, or 2). So as an example, in Jan I take out all the 1s, and warm them in my oven at the lowest temp for an hour, then in April, I do the 2s, and so on. Boridin Not going to get into the blank part but a couple of points. Do not ever store primers or powder in a sealed container. It is very dangerous. Proper storage is on an open shelf or a wood box with gaps in the corners and one weak side to allow blow out if there is a fire. Refrigerators will become large IED's if there is any type of ignition source. As to moisture resistance... a non issue. I was pulling powder out of blanks that were submerged in water for over a month. Both the powder and primers were wet. they function fine. Modern propellents are VERY water resistant. I have found some of my old blanks at events from the first years I was doing this back in 1998 ish and they still fired just fine. We store primers on open shelves and powder in a concrete block explosive house. there is no water proofing. No need. The coatings on the powder are more than fine for keeping it stable. This isn't the 1940's. Modern powder, even modern versions of old powder are nothing like they were 30 years ago. Same with primers. Still use common sense, use your head, don't store them near an ignition source, but containment isn't as big of a deal as it used to be. Robb |
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Post by horsesoldier176 on Jan 5, 2012 17:05:38 GMT -5
Robb;
I understand what you are saying, and both of the refrigerators I use are not locked, so the front door will easily open, in case of a fire. My local volunteer FD knows I reload, knows where in my house the fridges are, and knows to flood that corner of me basement, if God forbid, my house ever catches fire.
Boridin
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