|
|
Post by horsesoldier176 on Apr 6, 2011 9:10:40 GMT -5
Senior NCOs were authorized to wear the pocketed gym, as they often carried out senior duties, requiring them to have documents in the pockets on their chest.
But, for junior ranks, I agree, this should be set forth as the standard, and all efforts to enforce it should be made.
Boridin
|
|
|
|
Post by crazydima on Apr 6, 2011 9:21:31 GMT -5
Tovarischi,
I did not mean to come off as trying to belittle the effort to ascertain the issue of pockets vs no pockets on 43 tunics.
That was not my intent!!!!
Sometimes we get way too serious about our hobby and it tends to lead us to eating our own young. In RKKA re-enacting we cannot afford to do this.
IMHO we have much bigger fires to put out in RKKA re-enacting right now before we put so much passion and effort into issues such as pockets on 43 tunics.
We have soooooooo many re-enactorisms in RKKA which we have to overcome just to get us back to center. Research is just now getting up to speed to help combat those issues. Believe me the research of the VDV has been a real good lesson on such matters.
There is so much we do not know about the basics of day to day life of the Frontovik not to mention details of what he or she did or did not wear or carry as part of their combat rig. Fortunately more and more memoirs are being published and this helps. More records are being released and translated and this helps too.
As re-enactors we are charged with a mission which is different than that of the historian. In most cases re-enactors are far more passionate about our research than many historians and this helps us to find out the truth about such things as pockets on 43 tunics.
Soldiers are soldiers no matter what army or time period and thus they do things which are often contrary to what we may think was the norm.
I mean heck I have photos of Soviet troops during operation August Storm with both model 35 and 43 tunics standing in the same formation and that was in August of 1945.
Like I said...so much left to learn and so little time.
So keep up the good work and in due time we will be able to apply what is learned about the pocket issue to our portrayal of the Frontovik.
Sincerely,
Dima
9th Airborne Brigade VDV
|
|
bef
Junior Sergeant
In Mother Russian, A Big Man has a Big Hat.
Posts: 93 
|
Post by bef on Apr 6, 2011 14:38:49 GMT -5
Senior NCOs were authorized to wear the pocketed gym, as they often carried out senior duties, requiring them to have documents in the pockets on their chest. But, for junior ranks, I agree, this should be set forth as the standard, and all efforts to enforce it should be made. Boridin Comrade, An interesting Image has O/R in 43 Pocketless Gyms but the NCO's seem to be wearing 35 Gyms with 43 Insignia, likely they wanted the Breast Pockets for the additional paperwork they have to do. The Garments look new so it might be an early 43 Dress Reg issue. A possible Gag at a Gig. |
|
|
|
Post by horsesoldier176 on Apr 13, 2011 15:15:30 GMT -5
Well I take your jab as it was intended, not personally.
As a Troop sergeant, I carry so much crap around, that I can't carry combat items that I should be carrying. I not only fill all my pockets, but I also carry a Cavalryman's Valise, and it is full. I have a sidearm, a sabre, and in hot weather, I carry a canteen, or two. I have a whistle, riding crop, bayonet mallet, map case, binoculars,and all the safety regs, and liability forms for whatever event we are participating in. Sometimes I even have a radio, or two, again depending on event, and situation.
There are times when being a common grunt is an easier life.
LOL
Boridin
|
|
|
|
Post by vsahdneek on May 3, 2011 0:39:16 GMT -5
WTF ... next thing we will be arguing about whether to wear bakelight, painted, or brass buttons on our gyms to the field, or whether to wear medals with them, or pilotkas vs kaskas, or if we should all shave our heads and not bathe so we can show up to events with acurate body lice ! LOL !
In the era of high gas prices and bafflingly weird weather and an aging hobby population, and competing for young rekruits vs computer games and ipod/ipad/i-phone addiction, we have to focus on getting the numbers up at events and cut folks some slack from mindless nitpicking and stitch-commissar Gordy Hawkeyes Suck! kvetching and one-up-manship.
Please Komrades ! the Motherland can not long last with snitty discord in the ranks !
Accept the fact that all armies use what is available and we are all basically volunteer partizans regardless of the time period and units we portray. Stavka bought the farm long ago so it is what we make of it. Just do your best and try to improve your impressions over time as you can afford to do so and leave the bourgeosie egos at home lest the NKVD hunt them down !
Personally, I think in most cases our GPW/Ostfront reenactments should NOT declare what battle and time we are to represent to avoid argument. Anything you can wear from the onset of Operation Barbarossa to the end of the war should suffice. The only difference one might have is the war vs the Finns which would of course require troops to have only early model uniforms, or the 1917 - Civil War period which of course had very different uniforms.
The rest of the planet doesn't give a hoot about our snitting and most tourists at LH events don't know a gym from a telogreika so getting hot over a hobby is a bit of a 'tempest in a teapot'.
Volodymyr
|
|
|
|
Post by Yugoland Armin on May 19, 2011 23:11:23 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, where did this pocketless vs. pocketed tunic debate originate from? It just seems like it is a newer heated debate to me.
|
|
sasha
Red Army Man
Posts: 18
|
Post by sasha on May 20, 2011 16:15:03 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, where did this pocketless vs. pocketed tunic debate originate from? It just seems like it is a newer heated debate to me. Regulations: when the Obr43 was introduced enlisted men didn't have pockets, some time in 1944 (probably late in 1944) pockets were authorised for all personnel. Reality: Judging by photos even by the end of the war in Vienna, Berlin and Prague whole units were still equipped with the pocketless type. Reenactment: It was never an issue while the only show in town was the 1950s pocketed type. However, over the last few years good reproductions have become available which has opened up the debate. Or can of worms if you prefer....  It's similar to what German reenacting went through with converted Swedish tunics back in the day. |
|
|
|
Post by Yugoland Armin on May 20, 2011 22:54:57 GMT -5
Ah that would explain it then. I was curious because my grandpa mentioned that he saw the Soviets with pocketed tunics back in 1944-45 when they were making their way through parts of Yugoslavia.
|
|
